Alumni on Long Island: Thoughts on home values?

[Rebecca G]

To all Seaford alums still living on Long Island:

You're probably aware that property values on the island have soared in the last few years, and that the median home costs over half a million dollars whether you're in Nassau or Suffolk.
You may also be aware that the cheapest homes aren't much cheaper than this median.

Many people on LI tend to take the view of "we only want single-family homes, and we don't want property values to ever drop."

So I'm asking for 2 things here:
1) Open-mindedness for other types of residential development: apartments, rental units in houses, and condominiums.
2) If you believe the quote above, why do you believe it? And what might change your mind?

Many people in their 20's and 30's (including SHS grads like me) make good salaries, but not the 6-figure income that's necessary to qualify for a mortgage on the cheapest possible home.

Thousands of us have left because of this. LI may be a great place to live, but not great enough for people like me to toss out 40 years of financial viability.

Any thoughts and a polite, open discussion is most welcome.
All the best,
Rebecca

[Mo Mulqueen]

8-)I know what you mean about home prices. All of Long Island moved to the Tampa FL area and now home prices are at an average of $300K with salaries in the mid forties. While the houses may be cheaper, the salaries are lower, taxes on a $300k home are about $5k and home inurance jumps an average of 45% a year. Car insurance isn't cheap either and I pay more than 2X the amount for the same cars as I had in Sacramento. Stay in NY and vote for Hillary, she understands what it's like to be a New Yorker.

[Rebecca G]

I would KILL (metaphotically speaking of course) for a 300K house. The average here is over 500K, and the cheaper ones aren't much cheaper.
NY pays way more in sales tax, income tax, property tax than Florida.

Oh, and I hate Hillary She understands nothing but kissing Arafat's wife and pretending like she cares about anything besides her own political pull. But that's another topic

[Earl]

Yes, I agree that the housing market on LI has soared. Particularilly over the past 8-9 years. You cant even get a crackhouse in Roosevelt for under 400K. You had mentioned that people in their 20's and 30's are moving off the island. Dont forget about the older generation. Many of our parents are downsizing, retiring, and some unfortunately moving off the island. A recent trend are the 55 & over developments. That is a great idea and can help our older residents stay on LI. I dont understand your question.....as Im sure you are aware, rentals, apts, co-ops, condos, etc, have existed and are already vyable means of living for people. I dont know if a 6 figure income is required to qualify for a mortgage, as lenders are competing heavily for business and will cater thair mortgage packages to satisfy and win buyers. ( 0 down payment, help assist you with sellers concession,etc ) The question is can you (not you in particular, but "you" as in a home buyer) afford the payments, combined with pre-existing bills. I would think that most people can afford the payments, but find it difficult (especially for a first time homebuyer) to come up with a downpayment plus closing costs. I know when I was renting, my rent was high....almost the same as my mortgage. I also think that the real estate wave is catching up in other parts of the country now as well. I think for the most part salaries are proportionate to the housing market in different parts of the country. So this isnt just a problem with LI now.
As far as your quote, yes, I dont have a problem with 2 family homes. The problem that I would have if the owner rents to people that bring down the neighborhood. In many neighborhoods, there are portions of houses that have converted either basements, add-ons to rental units. Might even be on your street and be discreet enough that you dont even realize. Sometimes people have to do that in order to provide another income. Do I want my property value to drop? Of course not. If I bought a house in an area where there is an existing apt complex, well, so be it...it is what it is. If a developer came into my neighborhood and wanted to build an apt complex across the street from my house, yes, I would have a problem with it.
You had also mentioned in your last post that NY pays way more taxes than FL. While I am not an expert on the differences, I do know that (as Mo posted) that salaries are much less for your work counterparts in FL than NY. Salaries in the mid 40's? I dont know if I can even get out of bed for that. Serious.
Anyway, just some thoughts off the top of my head.

Rebecca said:

To all Seaford alums still living on Long Island:

You're probably aware that property values on the island have soared in the last few years, and that the median home costs over half a million dollars whether you're in Nassau or Suffolk.
You may also be aware that the cheapest homes aren't much cheaper than this median.

Many people on LI tend to take the view of "we only want single-family homes, and we don't want property values to ever drop."

So I'm asking for 2 things here:
1) Open-mindedness for other types of residential development: apartments, rental units in houses, and condominiums.
2) If you believe the quote above, why do you believe it? And what might change your mind?

Many people in their 20's and 30's (including SHS grads like me) make good salaries, but not the 6-figure income that's necessary to qualify for a mortgage on the cheapest possible home.

Thousands of us have left because of this. LI may be a great place to live, but not great enough for people like me to toss out 40 years of financial viability.

Any thoughts and a polite, open discussion is most welcome.
All the best,
Rebecca

[Rebecca G]

Yes, these alternatives are around, but not in nearly the same numbers as single-family homes.
And the minimum salary to qualify for a mortgage (according to a recent seminar I went to) is 1/5 of the property value. That corresponds to a 6-figure income, and even that means the debt is difficult to pay off. It used to be, avg prices 2.5x your salary were affordable, and now it is double that - and twice as hard to afford.

And I am asking, why would you have a problem with a new apartment complex? You sound like a reasonable person, so why do you automatically assume that apartment renters are a "bad element" who might "bring down the neighborhood"?

I can't get past the way so many people have this idea about renters. Owning a home (or rather, owning a mortgage) doesn't make you a good neighbor. Quite the opposite, 2 of my parents' owning neighbors are idiots who do not take care of their properties.

Earl said:

I dont understand your question.....as Im sure you are aware, rentals, apts, co-ops, condos, etc, have existed and are already vyable means of living for people. I dont know if a 6 figure income is required to qualify for a mortgage...
The problem that I would have if the owner rents to people that bring down the neighborhood....Do I want my property value to drop? Of course not... If a developer came into my neighborhood and wanted to build an apt complex across the street from my house, yes, I would have a problem with it.

[Earl]

I hear you with mortgage affordability. Its tough and I certainly dont envy first time homebuyers.
You asked why I would have a problem with a new apt complex. I would only have a problem if there was one built in my immediate neighborhood. I paid a premium for my house to be in a quiet, single family home, residential area. If I wanted a busier area, I would have bought in a busier area. Please dont take this the wrong way because that is not my intent, but you know how tough it is to buy a home. Lets say you accomplish your goal and work hard and are able to buy a new home. Lets say a year after you move in, you find out that an apt complex is being built right across the street. Your once quiet neighborhood will now be busier and transient. Most importantly, your "re-sale" value will diminish, and it will hit you in your pocketbook in the form of less money for your house if you were to sell. That is where I am coming from.
I didnt say that all renters are bad people. If you re-read my post, I said " The problem that I would have if the owner rents to people that bring down the neighborhood." Just like in any walks of life, there are good and bad. If I was to rent out a portion of my house, I would absolutely make sure that it would be discreet as possible, and that the person would not reflect poorly on me. You are right, owning a home doesnt make you a good neighbor, but what it is, is that the homeowner has a vested interest in the neighborhood, vs a renter who may or may not care as much. One more point I would like to make, I have a neighbor that rents out his basement apartment. That is his personal business. However, his tenants usually stay for 1 year and then move out. So far, this year you wouldnt even know he has anyone. Last year, he had a guy whose only mode of transportation (rain or shine) was a motorcycle. (I love motorcycles, just not 5 AM Monday thru Saturday). When the homeowner was away for the weekend, or on vacation, he would have wild parties, and you would see people taking a leak on the side of the house. Do you think that if this person owned the house, that would happen? Not 100% sure, but I would think not.

As for your original question. Yes, homebuying has become quite tough to do. Just as the recent trend for 55 and older, maybe something will come along the way to make it easier for homebuyers. I dont know what that can be, but if there is a big enough need, hopefully it will be addressed.

Rebecca said:

Yes, these alternatives are around, but not in nearly the same numbers as single-family homes.
And the minimum salary to qualify for a mortgage (according to a recent seminar I went to) is 1/5 of the property value. That corresponds to a 6-figure income, and even that means the debt is difficult to pay off. It used to be, avg prices 2.5x your salary were affordable, and now it is double that - and twice as hard to afford.

And I am asking, why would you have a problem with a new apartment complex? You sound like a reasonable person, so why do you automatically assume that apartment renters are a "bad element" who might "bring down the neighborhood"?

I can't get past the way so many people have this idea about renters. Owning a home (or rather, owning a mortgage) doesn't make you a good neighbor. Quite the opposite, 2 of my parents' owning neighbors are idiots who do not take care of their properties.

Earl said:

I dont understand your question.....as Im sure you are aware, rentals, apts, co-ops, condos, etc, have existed and are already vyable means of living for people. I dont know if a 6 figure income is required to qualify for a mortgage...
The problem that I would have if the owner rents to people that bring down the neighborhood....Do I want my property value to drop? Of course not... If a developer came into my neighborhood and wanted to build an apt complex across the street from my house, yes, I would have a problem with it.

[Rebecca G]

Ok, some interesting points there.

Most renters I know, are only renting while they save up to buy a home. I don't know the average stay, but every renter I know has stayed put for at least 3 years, and they are respectable people. Being a renter vs. owner doesn't ruin the sense of respect we were raised with. That guy who pees on the side of a house, is going to be a jerk when he buys a home too!

A great way to ensure longer-term stays (and reduce "transients") is to ensure affordable living. It's when housing is un-affordable, that people are more likely to move around to find something cheaper.

It's said that the last person to move into a neighborhood, wants to be. Which, forgive me, is hypocritical. Every new neighbor, then, ruins his neighbor's quiet home life.

How can you define the "quiet" neighborhood you buy a home in? What if you buy a home, and have 5 kids - is that ok? Wouldn't that ruin the quality of life and noise level for your neighbors?

I'm being facetious, but you see my point. One apartment complex (a few hundred residents?) can not change the character of a neighborhood or town with 15,000 residents.

And frankly, if homeowners are so worried about transients who don't care about their neighborhood ... why do they care so much about resale values - which will only come into play when they leave - and they become the transient ones?

[Earl]

<<Most renters I know, are only renting while they save up to buy a home. I don't know the average stay, but every renter I know has stayed put for at least 3 years, and they are respectable people. Being a renter vs. owner doesn't ruin the sense of respect we were raised with. That guy who pees on the side of a house, is going to be a jerk when he buys a home too!>>

I hope I did not convey the impression that renters are bad people. I think I had expressed that there are good and bad in all walks.

<<A great way to ensure longer-term stays (and reduce "transients") is to ensure affordable living. It's when housing is un-affordable, that people are more likely to move around to find something cheaper.>>
What exactly do you mean by affordable living? Is it housing, taxes, gas, food.

<<It's said that the last person to move into a neighborhood, wants to be. Which, forgive me, is hypocritical. Every new neighbor, then, ruins his neighbor's quiet home life.>>
I dont understand your statement. Can you please clarify?

<<How can you define the "quiet" neighborhood you buy a home in? What if you buy a home, and have 5 kids - is that ok? Wouldn't that ruin the quality of life and noise level for your neighbors?

I'm being facetious, but you see my point. One apartment complex (a few hundred residents?) can not change the character of a neighborhood or town with 15,000 residents.>>

My personal definition of a quiet neighborhood is not where there are no kids. I think having kids play in your neighborhood is a good thing, To me a quiet neighborhood is one where maybe traffic isnt too heavy. Kids can play in the street, and be respectful of the local neighborhood traffic coming thru. I would think that a "loud" area would consist of heavy traffic, people coming and going....more of a commercial type of area. Not saying that that is a bad place, just saying that is not my preference. Im not right or wrong, just my preference.
The hypothetical newly built apt complex in a pre--existing neighborhood would not change the character of a town, but would have a significant impact on the surrounding pre-existing homes. Now, if you paid $500K for a house and found out that a new apt complex was going to be built adjacent to your property, would you welcome it with open arms?

<<
And frankly, if homeowners are so worried about transients who don't care about their neighborhood ... why do they care so much about resale values - which will only come into play when they leave - and they become the transient ones?>>

Luckilly for me, I dont have many renters in my neighborhood (just the one home that I referenced earlier) I dont understand your question about why they care about their resale value. I think that is a primary concern for homeowners. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to understand why a homeowner would want to maximize their resale value.

Anyway, I am enjoying our conversation, and sharing of thoughts.

[CAROL SPOSITO]

Hi everyone, as a kid we owned Joes Food Mkt and lived on 2180 Washington Ave we lived next door to a old condemed house thought it was huanted in 1967 they bulit a new church at the corner and we hung out out a the old tree, my parents sold that house and we moved in 68-69 back to Houston , we sold the the house for 40,000.00 to think that the houses now go for over 500,000.00 is amazing to me who would of ever beleived if we had stayed all these yrs but lfe goes on and I now live in Ga.

[J]

Nothing for nothing. But unless they got the house from thier parents and even then.Most new buyers now rent out the bottom just to pay the bills. Sooner or later it will be next door to all of us. Sell now, sell high while you can. The boom is about to be over.

[RebeccaG]

Your neighbors are all selling ... you can't go 2 blocks without seeing For Sale signs up ...

I hope this boom ends soon and then people will not have any more worrying about maintaining falslely high 700k property values.

[Ken Murtaugh 1971]

Hi All...Long Island not only Seaford got WAY OUT OF CONTROL.....Around 1985 or 1990 they said that it would only be a place for the rich and famous!!!!....Well guess what they DID IT!!!! I retired from the LIRR and moved to Port St .Lucie Fla in 2005. We bought the property when it was still cheap but now it has gon crazy!!!...Thank god we got in when we did but taxes and Home Insurance is going up!!!....It is still CHEAPER than L.I. but? You can run but you CANNOT hide!!!!!.....The whole COUNTRY IS GOING CRAZY!!!!.....I think that you can thank the jerks running this country but who knows!!!!!

[P W]

Wow reading all these comments I just wanted to drop in my thoughts. I grew up in seaford harbor and loved it in the 70's and early 80's, but I recently went back to visit an aunt and could not believe how (in my opinion) overdeveloped it is. And there is no question that to stay there people built up into mother daughter or two-family homes. AND thats great if you love where you are do whatever it takes to stay, But could you imagine adding an apartment building lets say on the corner of Neptune and Roanoke or one of those still empty lot corners thats left over from the never expanded expressway. The traffic would kill an already congested community, so I find putting apt. buildings in single family communities a little hard to fathom. I had to move east to buy a house, you can still buy in the $300k range but you are east of exit 60 off the LIE. I recently purchased what is now only my second home and what will be a dream home for my family in a town that SO much reminds me of Seaford when I grew up and this time I actually got the waterfront house so i don't need to put my boat behind someone else's house. I am remodeling with the hope that my kids will have the memories here that i have from Seaford and maybe one will take over the house and keep me an apartment to grow old in. The word I was looking for from some one was BABY BOOMER'S , thats what changes all of this and the youngest of us are about 45 with the oldest in the sixties...as they all head south to retire the south is going to keep getting more expensive..watch the Carolinas....its crazy there right now ..up ..up..up $$$$. Long island i believe is in for some rough times as home values level off , unfortunately no-one is handling the tough questions, how to handle rising property taxes. This I believe is where energy needs to be used to keep Long Island moving in a positive direction after the baby boomers go south... Thanks for reading.

[Rebecca G]

<<Long island i believe is in for some rough times as home values level off , unfortunately no-one is handling the tough questions, how to handle rising property taxes.>>

Actually, there is a great way to handle this:

1) Vote down the school budgets
2) AUDIT AUDIT AUDIT the school and see where all the over-spending goes

Kids won't get delinquent just because there are more than 19 per class, or no personal computers, or computers that are over 3 years old, or no after-school sports for middle school kids.

[Maggie]

We moved out of Seaford in 1995 - which was hard at the time but now am so thankful. As for voting down the school budget - do you realize that Seaford teachers are paid lower salaries than most of the districts on Long Island? The school system on Long Island (Seaford) is top notch - there is no need to send children to private school because your public schools are fantastic. We live in the Metro Atlanta Area and would be in heaven if our schools even slightly resembled the schools in Seaford. You, as an alumni of SHS should understand the importance of and appreciate the education you recieved and understand that the new generation is also entitled to what you were given. Taking away from the kids isn't the way to get what you want. You may be able to find "cheaper" housing upstate - maybe moving closer to Hilary would work out for you.